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Marriage


Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 8:11 pm

Smile tegara english and 2 yrs of studying economics in my pre-masters ..

bos, personally i don't think a normal man will marry only for sex, the hypothis came to my mind when walid put sex as number one in the list of reasons men marry in our community, he elaborated later that it comes with other reasons, but still he put it as number one.
personally speaking, i doubt a rational man will give up his freedom for few minutes of pleasure, not mention en el pleasure mesh madmoon ..
i guess sex is essential for men, but not for basis of marriage .. actually my solid theory of men choosing average to cold girl to marry contradicts with the men getting married for sex assumption ..
bas i wanted to discuss the idea regardless what i believe ..
A man is basically as faithful as his options
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Hossamdinho ®
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Re: Marriage

Post by Hossamdinho ® on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 8:53 pm

shimaa you didnt answer my question which i asked twice before

what do you call the girl who looks for/accepts a guy only if he has a good balance in his bank account or a nice job regadless of his emotions towards her and sometimes his age...and those girls are so many
الزمالك ضار جدا بالصحه و يسبب الوفاه

Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 9:11 pm

the reply is, ya wakhed el erd 3ala maloh yeroo7 el mal we yeb2a el erd 3ala 7aloh ..

bas, if we put that girl who accepts the man for money, and the man who is marrying for sex and all this in an arranged marriage .. so we will have a complete prostitution process ..

bas ur question rise a very good question, which we asked before, but need an elaboration ..
how essential is money in a marriage? is it a motive? a goal? is money a reason for success or is it a reason for failure?
A man is basically as faithful as his options
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Hossamdinho ®
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Re: Marriage

Post by Hossamdinho ® on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 10:00 pm

misho here i'm not talking about financial position of the guy...i'm talking about girls who are so picky, not to the one who loves them but to the one who has more capability to give them a stable life
الزمالك ضار جدا بالصحه و يسبب الوفاه

Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 10:21 pm

bos ya hossam, off the record elly teseeb wa7ed bet7eboh 3ashan shewyet feloos di shakhsya zebla ..
bas this is off the record between u and me ..

bas to analyze things .. we need to consult the defination of both love and marriage.
and to keep in mind that marriage is a real thing, so some girls are good in math .. so they do the simple equation of the easy life. they will choose the well endowed man to the man they think have financial problems. the reason for choosing money is the preception of money as a source of security .. so they choose the more appealing portfolio, especially law salonat .. why take someone not that rich while u can have a better package .. it is all about security ..
bas nerga3 tany lel masal .. ya wakhed el 2erd ..
A man is basically as faithful as his options
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Re: Marriage

Post by Hossamdinho ® on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 10:45 pm

shimaagamal wrote:why take someone not that rich while u can have a better package .. it is all about security ..


so the girl here is selling herself to the one how can pay (and i mean buy payment here not just money...its anything other than love)

can we call her here a prostitute???

hookers at the corner are looking for someone wo can pay not any man who can be good in bed

the concept of give me something i want to give you what you need

do you think its the man's fault here

remember no one gets married 3'asb 3anno elayaam de ella naderan awy we fe 7alat mo3ayana

so the girl who accepts to marry a man she doesn't love is a prostitute...IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY??
الزمالك ضار جدا بالصحه و يسبب الوفاه

Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Sun 08 Apr 2007, 11:21 pm

hossam honey, review what i said before, she is a hooker only if the man who is marrying her is marrying only for sex.
ONLY in that case this relation is a complete prostitution.

but on the other hand, if we are speaking about two normal persons. who met in a salonat meeting because they have no other way to find a partner.
in such marriages everyone put a list of what he wants in a partner and prioritize the list from the most important to the least important .. some have religion on top others have money, others have looks, other have family .. and a partner means a mix of all the factors .. so consequently there is nothing wrong in a girl who picks the wealthy guy, the same way there is nothing wrong about the guy who picks the blonde .. because in that case it is just factors with weights .. depends on what the person value the most .. those who value money will choose money, those who value looks will choose looks, those who value religion will choose religion, and those who value social standard will choose social standards.
and i guess this is the kind of arranged marriage you all have been arguing in the last couple of days is right.
two people meeting in a saloon, deciding based on factors the propability of them being involved into a partnership called marriage, and the aim of the partnership is the normal healthy aim, to start a family, help sustain life on pplanet earth, have kids raise them and die .. when nothing awkward is involved in the selection process and no abnormal goals behind marriage ... it is all about personal choice and personal values .. no problem at all
A man is basically as faithful as his options
http://shimaagamal.blogspot.com

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Re: Marriage

Post by Hossamdinho ® on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 12:59 am

shimaagamal wrote:hossam honey, review what i said before, she is a hooker only if the man who is marrying her is marrying only for sex.
ONLY in that case this relation is a complete prostitution.


this is fair enough :0105:

shimaagamal wrote:but on the other hand, if we are speaking about two normal persons. who met in a salonat meeting because they have no other way to find a partner.
in such marriages everyone put a list of what he wants in a partner and prioritize the list from the most important to the least important .. some have religion on top others have money, others have looks, other have family .. and a partner means a mix of all the factors .. so consequently there is nothing wrong in a girl who picks the wealthy guy, the same way there is nothing wrong about the guy who picks the blonde .. because in that case it is just factors with weights .. depends on what the person value the most .. those who value money will choose money, those who value looks will choose looks, those who value religion will choose religion, and those who value social standard will choose social standards.
and i guess this is the kind of arranged marriage you all have been arguing in the last couple of days is right.
two people meeting in a saloon, deciding based on factors the propability of them being involved into a partnership called marriage, and the aim of the partnership is the normal healthy aim, to start a family, help sustain life on pplanet earth, have kids raise them and die .. when nothing awkward is involved in the selection process and no abnormal goals behind marriage ... it is all about personal choice and personal values .. no problem at all


kalam gameel gedan we 3a2el gedan gedan...

so gawaz elsalonat is like any other way of marriage, there could be bad goals and good goals behind it...and in my opinion this way of marriage meant to be the best way for now specially if the girl doesn't work or matel3tlahash be wa7ed kowayes men elgam3a walla course akhadeto ba3d elgam3a

and in my opinion and from my experiance elshabab el fe sennena never think of marriage as way to have sex we bas keda (and i know exactlly what i'm saying...cuz this is all my friend's opinion)

you can only apply this when a +35 years old man tries to marry a 22 or 23 years old girl...this is the only case where i can garuntee 99% that the aim of this marrige for the man is sex and and the girl is money (she is selling herself in this case)
الزمالك ضار جدا بالصحه و يسبب الوفاه

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Re: Marriage

Post by walid_gad on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 1:11 am

The Rebel wrote:el maQsood, enak matet3'arresh bel manzar again.. give a chance to really know the person Qodamak beyfakar ezay be3eed 3an en 3elto kuwayesa aw la2, with whatever definition.. Smile


I agree ya Mona ana ma oultesh il mazhar merayah lil sha7's akeed el mazhar beye7'da3 fee kteer mn el a7yan.

bss law il 3eelah ma3roufah kwayess wee mashhoud laha yob2a benesbah kbeerah il sha7's madmoun dah kalamy.

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Re: Marriage

Post by walid_gad on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 1:22 am

ya gama3ah ana shayef in law il gawaz kann il 3'rdd menooh ayy 7agah tania 3'eer takween ousrah w il 3eshrah bel ma3rouf ya3ny el sabrr 3la il 7elwah wel mourah yob2a akeed il gawaz dah hayefshall.

wee tab3an ishba3 il 3'reezah il genseyah mesh 7agah 3'ltt bss ma yekounsh dah il 3'rdd el ra2esy mn el gawaz.....bss il 3'ltt howa il nazarr lil madeyatt .....ana m3a inn il mostawa il igtema3y wel madyy yekoun motaqareb bss in el wa7dah tedawar 3la wa7edd 3lshan yekoun asanserr leeha li 7ayah igtema3eyah we madeyah afdall dah 3'lttttt.
و يحذركم الله نفسه

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Re: Marriage

Post by samasimo on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 3:59 am

walid_gad wrote:
samasimo wrote:
walid_gad wrote: wee tab3an il 3eelah beykounn mrayah li a7'la2 il wa7dah


NOT in this era, brother.

TRUST my words.


I mean inn il bntt illy mnn 3eelah mo7afzah 3la il deen 99.99% hatkounn motadayenah...... hatetla3a we7shah izayy wee heya metrabeya 3la asass deeny wee 3arfah il s77 wel 3'ltt ..... take care that I said 99.99 % Smile


lol.. hia entakhabat ya man!!

If u wanna talk in terms of number ( which i personally prefer), Being optimistic I can say its arround 60-70%

using shaimaa's terminology:

Nowadays, the most important info to mention in the marraige CV is to say "Motadayen(a)"

whether its true or not

we law ma3amltesh keda, u may be refused even before u go into the salon. As i said b4, this is one of major factors that % of mohagabt increases signficantly in egypt.

by this part of ur CV is also important if u r going to marry someone u love.

what are the first things that anyone discussing with his./her own family will say?

aslo ya mama sahb mo2adab we mo7atram we motadayen
OR
ya baba deeh benta akhla2ha 3lia awy we mn 3ela motadayena gedan we mabetsalmesh 3ala regala

I swear to God man that for the last 10-15 marraiges i heard about, these r typical things we hear. we ba3d keda yetla3 kolo kalam fil hawa. I am not saying that the person is shown to be bad afterwards but I mean it shows that he(she) is not like the way descried before (in the CV)

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Re: Marriage

Post by samasimo on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 4:05 am

shimaagamal wrote:
samasimo wrote:
shimaagamal wrote:
personally speaking, i won't even marry someone i love!!


are u serious?

according to my understanding, u r saying that u'll never get married!!


yes serious .. remember i asked u earlier about a good reason to get married and no one gave me a good reason


1- I feel sorry that our discussion makes someone takes such kinds of decisions!

2- As I told u before, u'll come back to this topic in 20-25 years and admit that u were wrong

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Re: Marriage

Post by samasimo on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 4:14 am

shimaagamal wrote:
the terms the parents put resembles the price of the commodity, and as i explained before there is an excess supply of girls (review demographic statistics) and price for those who don't know is determined by the point of intersection between the supply curve (girls) and the demand curve (boys). so lets assume that the price for girls is X. so any boy can have a girl at a certain package of terms X. when the parent put terms x+1 there will be no demand, because the boy can have the same package at X. the invisible hand of the market will make the x+1 price either move out of the market or be decreased to the X price.
there is nothing wrong in the marketing mix, it is the wrong price that makes el sel3a bayra as u described..


for sure, u r better than me when it comes to marketing and economics.

but let me tell u that i disagree with u coz simply this is not the case.

First of all, i think that what u study in books about marketing is not applied in the egyptin markets. egyptian market is generally unique :D

elmohem, u ignored 2 important things.
1-made in japan 3'er made in taiwan.
2- in egypt, law 7ad 3'alla kollo bey3'ally. wrong markketing principle but it is there

law elpackage elli tamanha X, seller asked for X+10 what will happen?

1- mesh haroo7 ashtery ommo X mn eltaw7eed welnoor coz simply i want elyabaany mesh eltaiwny (mesh haroo7 atgawez wa7da mn kafr za3bola as she costs me less)

2- all sellers who have the same package will also rise the price to X+10. this is the egyptian mentaility. ( baba says: lazem sh2a 250 metres zay elli gat lebent 3amaha and mama says: lazem elshabka mesh 2a2al mn 20000 gneh, heya bentena a2al mn bent mesh 3aref meeen)

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Re: Marriage

Post by walid_gad on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 4:20 am

Osama we have to differentiate between how the person is looking and what actually he/she has in his/her heart?.

I know that we can not know what is inside the heart of someone and also the look isn't enough to say that this man is religious or not.

For me the reference to have a preliminary impression for a person who u never know before is to look to his/her family, I beleive that the family is a good mirror for their son/daughter whatever was the percentage of the truth of that.

For me, if the father of this family appears as a religious man (i.e. going to mosque for the all prayers-if he is muslim-, have a good reputation,...etc) then we have to take that as an inication for the son/daughter.

or else what is ur suggestion? shall they keep doubting in everything and stay singles - i mean for those who have no chance to know good girl/man-?
و يحذركم الله نفسه

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Re: Marriage

Post by samasimo on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 6:28 am

walid_gad wrote:Osama we have to differentiate between how the person is looking and what actually he/she has in his/her heart?.

I know that we can not know what is inside the heart of someone and also the look isn't enough to say that this man is religious or not.

For me the reference to have a preliminary impression for a person who u never know before is to look to his/her family, I beleive that the family is a good mirror for their son/daughter whatever was the percentage of the truth of that.

For me, if the father of this family appears as a religious man (i.e. going to mosque for the all prayers-if he is muslim-, have a good reputation,...etc) then we have to take that as an inication for the son/daughter.

or else what is ur suggestion? shall they keep doubting in everything and stay singles - i mean for those who have no chance to know good girl/man-?


Walid,
I am not arguing with the mean, i just disagree with the accuracy of that mean.

One point to take into consideration, that in saloonat setup, everyone tries to appear in the best form. this make the accurcy of the first impression even lower?

Btw, my words dont mean that good family is not important. In fact, i believe its a crucial issue.

I see "love" between 2 persons but "marriage" is between 2 families. 2 families combine to produce a new family. Hence, marrying someone from a good family is something important.

A good person but not a good family is not enough to go for the marraige. This is my opinion.

belmonasba, i can add my opinion to the questions I posted regarding parent's approval.

I never ever go to marry someone without the approval of myparents. regardless how much I love the person, parents are superior when it comes to obeyence. I could exert everything effort to convince them and I could continue to do this as long as i am alive without losing hope but at the end i cannot tradeoff my parents with love.
Moreover, I wont marry somoene without the approval of her family. mahma kanet elzeroof we 7ata law et2al 3li nadl we .. we ... we..

elli yebee3 ahlo , yebee3 ay 7ad ba3d keda


back to u walid,

the BEST way to judge people to judge how they deal with other people NOT how they deal with u.

This proves part of ur theories shaimaa :0102: which i agree with.

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Re: Marriage

Post by walid_gad on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 6:48 am

Shimaa, I just noticed that u are u was asking about good reason to get married.

We as humans are getting married for many reasons, I thought that everybody knows why do we getting married?, that is why ur question makes me surprised.

Marriage will make u emotionally satble.Without getting married u will loose alot of feelings and needs, u will loose the feeling of having someone who loves u , support u , push u to be better and better and who will face all the troubles with u without getting mad. u will miss a partner who u need his/her help to be succesful in ur life.

Also u will miss the feeling to be mother/father which is a great feeling, and u will miss the love and the legal sexual relationship that every normal human needs.

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Re: Marriage

Post by Izzy on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 9:52 am

I guess I am person who's not ready for a long term commitment.

So any one I marry hakoon bazlemha.
In Hell I'll meet you, and once AGAIN defeat you!!

Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 9:01 pm

walid_gad wrote: I thought that everybody knows why do we getting married?, that is why ur question makes me surprised.

don't be surprised, i guess that many people who gets married every day don't know why they are getting married, they get married based on the same idea u gave, everybody knows why we get married .. but the truth is, not all of us know, or if we know we don't all get married for the same reasons, or why do u think problems arise?

walid_gad wrote:
Marriage will make u emotionally satble.Without getting married u will loose alot of feelings and needs, u will loose the feeling of having someone who loves u , support u , push u to be better and better and who will face all the troubles with u without getting mad. u will miss a partner who u need his/her help to be succesful in ur life.

Also u will miss the feeling to be mother/father which is a great feeling, and u will miss the love and the legal sexual relationship that every normal human needs.


i guess i have put a list of the reasons to be eliminated from the reasons for me to get married ..
i am emotionally stable, i don't feel that i need to get married to be complete .. i don't need to build a home i am already running one, i need no more responsbilities i have enough, i am not fond of kids, motherhood isn't on my calendar, i need not buy a bull for the little sausage, i don't think there is a person in this world who can support me in better or worse, who can push me to be better to do all what u said but myself. i am the person who will support me in better or in worse ..

so, do u have any other reasons??
A man is basically as faithful as his options
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Shimaagamal
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 9:14 pm

commenting on whole the family issue, family is important bas it never gives the right image of the person, we live in a time where families don't play the influential role. friends, school, college, work environement, t.v., and the internet form the way a person think.
we have plenty of cases for young men and women who came from really good families but they are not.
as for the motadyen/ motadyena card .. i agree fi no2ta wa7da .. enoh card beytl3eb keteer .. ya3ny personally speaking two of my cousins got engaged to 2 girls just 3ashan these two girls said enohom 7afzeen nos el quran .. my 1st reply was 7ad sama3lohom Smile because really if i am to marry someone 3ashan bey2ool enoh 7afez nos el quran, i would like to test him .. else hakoon akhadt khazoo2 law 7afez rob3oh .. wala tele3 7afez el fat7a we kol walaho a7ad .. actually one of these two girls i personally call b* coz besara7a i am one of the persons el mo2mneen en el deen el mo3amla, we heya ma tet2le3sh mn el reglien .. gazma bata mera2a3a ..
so, motadayen/ motadyena is really over used .. and families are not really a mirror ..
and the more we talk the more i believe en el gawaz bateekha .. and fi mo3zam el a7yan malhash ta3m ..
A man is basically as faithful as his options
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Re: Marriage

Post by Shimaagamal on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 9:45 pm

marketing isn't economics ya ossama ..
and no, the determining of the price is a market function, no certain player can do.
the example of el japaneese and the chineese doesn't apply here.
in a free market economy, the consumer is indifferent, and this indifference is the key .. zeid is like 3bied, prices shifts only with a change in consumer prefrence

so, i assumed en the market of girls is homogenous .. bas if u wanted to introduce the japaneese and chineese differntiation, so u would make a different curve for each market and the intial rule applies ..

Q.E.D Smile
A man is basically as faithful as his options
http://shimaagamal.blogspot.com
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